- Posting by D Spencer Hines to Gen-Med 18 Sep 2007, "Magna Carta Sureties..."
One of the most interesting of these Guarantors & Counsellors of King John at Runnemede is Piers Fitz Herbert, because he is generally so less well known than many others. Here are some additional reported details on Piers: Piers Fitz Herbert was knight of 15 knights' fees in Berkshire and Hampshire. Matthew Paris says he was one of "the evil counsellors of King John". John certainly favored him with many commissions. Piers married twice, first in 1204 to Alice, widow of John Fitz Richard, Constable of Chester, and daughter of Roger Fitz Richard by Alice de Vere, "Alice of Essex", which made him an uncle by marriage to the Surety John Fitz Robert and stepgrandfather of the Surety John de Lacy. Piers de Herbert's second marriage was to Isabel, sister to Henry de Ferrers. He died in 1235 and was buried in Reading Abbey. Among other children, Piers had a son, Reynold Fitz Piers, who carried on the family line. (Source: Arthur Edwin Bye, op. cit., p. 186)
- Posting by John Ravilous to Gen-Med 18 Sep 2007, "Magna Carta Sureties..."
...his earliest patrilineal ancestor I can identify, that was the Herbert 'camerarius' who had a grant from the Archbishop of York of lands in Londesbrough, Wiverthorpe and elsewhere in Yorkshire which are still found in Sir Reynold fitz Piers' hands at his death in 1285. He was the father of, among others, Herbert fitz Herbert of Leckhampstead, co. Bucks., Londesborough and Wiverthorpe, co. Yorks., and of William (later St. William), Archbishop of York. He was also the brother-in-law of King Stephen (if by marriage to his illegitimate half-sister). A question comes up which will result in one of us correcting a standing error. You show below that Alice, wife of Piers, was the daughter of Roger fitz Richard and Alice de Vere, and the widow of John fitz Richard the Constable (d. 1190). I show Pier's wife as the niece of this Alice, and daughter of Robert fitz Roger of Warkworth by Margaret de Chesney. This is also as given in Leo's website, Genealogics.org - Alice (wife of Piers, daughter of Robert fitz Roger) is given ID #I00284745.
- Posting by Rosie Bevan to Gen-Med 19 Sep 2007 "Magna Carta Sureties..."
Alice was most certainly the daughter of Robert fitz Roger, the evidence of which is given in a 1203 agreement for dower in the curia regis rolls. CRR 3 p. 6 "Euerwikesir' .Sciant presentes et futuri quod ita convenit inter Herebertum filium Hereberti et Petrum filium ejus de maritagio Alicie filie Roberti filii Rogeri, quam idem Petrus duxit in uxorem, quod predictus Herebertus dedit et concessit Petro filio suo ad dotandum Aliciam predictam uxorem suam totum tenementum suum de Euerwikesir'...."